Divided. I don't like corporate interests influencing political policy to the extent that they do, but I also don't like ignorant hippies who only campaign for social change in glamorous and romantic ways. If cooler heads prevail and they publish a manifesto or list of demands that isn't incoherent bullshit and is simple enough message with a simple enough solution that it can be something one realistically protests about, then I'll jump on board.

Lot of my friends are getting involved in this, and I'm proud of them, but people more ignorant then them are dragging it down.

The specific demands thing would be helpful. It's about time.

"We demand that the people in charge of the regulatory bodies which oversee large corporations tender their resignations immediately. We demand that all lobbying involving any exchange of items with monetary value in congress be outlawed.
We demand that the funding of political campaigns by corporations be regulated, including but not limited to abolishing 501(c)(4) money laundering schemes."

That would be a nice start, in my opinion.

Divided. I don't like corporate interests influencing political policy to the extent that they do, but I also don't like ignorant hippies who only campaign for social change in glamorous and romantic ways. If cooler heads prevail and they publish a manifesto or list of demands that isn't incoherent bullshit and is simple enough message with a simple enough solution that it can be something one realistically protests about, then I'll jump on board.

Lot of my friends are getting involved in this, and I'm proud of them, but people more ignorant then them are dragging it down.

Part of the problem is that there are so many issues right now.  Unemployment, healthcare, the cost of living, the fact that the few jobs being created don't pay anything like a real living wage, corporate influence in the government...and all these things are interconnected.  It's hard to settle on a simple statement of "this is what pisses us off and this is what we want done about it" when you're getting screwed from a dozen different directions at once.

Oh, and this is what I posted elsewhere to address my feelings about the seeming shapelessness of the movement at present:

Right now it's a formless mass of anger. That's good. It gets it out there. It's the dust cloud before the organized solar system forms. They'll get there, but this is a movement that wants to hear people's voices before they put their demands out there, and that's going to take time. There are a lot of demands to get through. For better or for worse, that's the priority of the people who are down there right now.

I went to Occupy Boston on Sunday. We just wanted to drop off some blankets and check it out--we didn't know if we wanted to be more involved. Ended up spending a good few hours waving a sign. I'm spreading the word online and we're going back this weekend. I'm not hurting financially. I'm in a fairly stable position, in fact. But I was thinking of all the stories I've heard lately. People having to choose between food and electricity, health and homes. People living in their cars. I'm tired of seeing the people around me hurting, and when people finally start trying to do something, I'm not going to sit at home complaining that it's not exactly what I want. I'm going to get out there and try and make my voice heard while they're still doing the listening part. I'm going to get involved and put that anger out there and be one more number in the streets. Being a quiet majority never changed anything. This might not change anything either, but I'm okay with that. I'm not okay with not trying at all.

So I'm going to do what I can. If nothing else, it just feels good to be with people who feel the same.



-----------------------

I think they're going to get to a point where they have to choose between the purest form of their ideals and a higher level of effectiveness. They don't want leaders or representatives, or too much media involvement or sponsors. That's great, but limiting. When I was in Boston, there was a bit of awkwardness concerning donations--they wanted to take donations for a generator and a dedicated server for a livestream, and the crowd were 100% behind that idea. However, when it came to the actual process of collecting those donations, they strongly rejected anything involving a corporation. No Paypal. No Kickstarter. No putting the money on a prepaid Visa card and taking it down to the shops to buy what's needed. I understand that negativity towards corporations is a huge part of this thing, but part of the reason for that is that corporations are so big that they're basically unavoidable on a practical level. If it came down to a choice between a fairly minor boycott and the ability to have more of an overall effect, I'd choose the option that involved using the corporations themselves to facilitate the movement trying to take them down, and I'd probably have a total trollface on while doing it.

I'm going to start a company that sells bootstraps.

American dream, here I come!

...

According to local news, the Portland Police estimate between 5 and 6 thousand people attended the march today.

Well, see, if it is taken by the Democrats, then theoretically Obama could do quite a bit if he gets reelected.  More dramatic shifts in policy happen in the second term, since the president isn't worrying about getting reelected. 

The other problem is what third party could be good for this?  The Green Party hasn't gotten anywhere except for Eugene, Oregon.  About the only other third party I'd feel comfortable getting any boost out of this is the Modern Whigs, and even I don't agree with all of their stances.  I suppose there could be an Occupy Party that was a wing of the Democrats, putting pressure on them like the Teas are, but otherwise I don't think there's enough cohesion for a brand new third party otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that not voting against whoever the Republicans put forward next year is shortsighted at best.

I just said I would be voting against the Republican nominee, didn't I?

It's, uh, not really "voting against" if your vote doesn't actually help beat them.
I'm not saying Obama's ideal or anything, I just think it's very important for America to have a president from 2012-2016 who isn't Mitt Romney in the absolute best case scenario.

I guess what I mean to say is this: is not voting for the lesser of two evils really more important to you than literally preventing a literal hell on earth, literally?

Fuck that and fuck you. Being too chickenshit to vote for a third party is what got this nation where it is. You are part of the problem.

Actually, I'm pretty sure people voting for a third party instead of against George Bush is what got this nation where it is. (Also, bullshit pseudo-libertarian ideology propagated by people who would die in a gutter if we fully adopted it, so fuck you too.)

But, hey, I'm sorry I'd rather vote to prevent a neverending reign of terror and death than for somebody who can't get along with the Democratic Party, which manages to contain people like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. I can't help it, you know? I just love America too much.