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» Debate » Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States?
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thedrunkenmonkey    Topic opened August 04, 2008, 02:12:06 PM
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Inebriated Simian (Skype: thedrunkenmonkey)
So, as I've read the latest information coming out of the US Border Patrol policy, US customs agents are now authorized by the Border Patrol to seize cellphones, laptops, computers, and hard drives, and copy the contents of the drives, hold onto the contents,  and automatically review all materials on the computers regardless of the 4th and 5th Amendments. I'm not sure of the legality of this policy, but since it's been in effect since 2006, I'm not seeing any fast changes.

http://www.thetransnational.travel/news.php?cid=laptop-seizure.Jul-08.09

So. Thoughts? Apparently the Bush administration has called a laptop "no different from any other closed container".

Though personally I do wonder if the Bush administration believes that to be true of any of their own computers and/or email systems.
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Coani Reply #1 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 02:43:58 PM
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I understand and accept a lot of the security measures in place.  I'm ok with Border Patrol taking a quick scan through my pictures to make sure I'm not photographing things that put them in direct danger.  I'm ok with turning on my laptop to prove that it's not a bomb.  I'm not ok with them having a copy of everything on my computer.  Especially to hold indefinitely.  Without probable cause.

I don't like it on several levels.
First, I like my 4th and 5th Amendment Rights just as much as the 19th.  When I joined the military in 1999 it was to protect my country and uphold our values and rights.  It pisses me off to see the things I joined to defend being raped, especially since I can't do a damn thing to stop it.

Second, I know too many people who have banking information on their computer.  All it takes is one less-than-scrupulous Border Patrol Guy to make a copy of certain files, or lose the hard drive they're stored on, and the government will, once again, be responsible for a round of identity theft. 

Third, they don't even have to give a reason "Because I said so" shouldn't apply once you move out of your parents' house.

Grr!
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Badger Reply #2 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 02:51:07 PM
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Swift as a deer, size of a dog, head like a monkey
*makes mental note to load up virus-ridden laptop and make a couple dozen border crossings with it*
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jabbaciv Reply #3 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 04:43:07 PM
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Quote from: Coani on August 04, 2008, 02:43:58 PM
First, I like my 4th and 5th Amendment Rights just as much as the 19th.  When I joined the military in 1999 it was to protect my country and uphold our values and rights.  It pisses me off to see the things I joined to defend being raped, especially since I can't do a damn thing to stop it.

Same boat as me.
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phobos Reply #4 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 04:55:16 PM
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Note to self: if ever I have to enter the US under the current regime, make sure that all my internet bookmarks are to somethingorother.on.nimp.org so as to give them something interesting to look at.

(edit: in case it's not obvious from context and from the fact I didn't make it a link - that's not a good site to visit. Any URL ending in 'on.nimp.org' is thermonuclear internet hell that can never be un-seen. Having Noscript installed is a very good idea.)
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Symmetry Reply #5 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 07:06:13 PM
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I'm afraid its worse than that phobos.  Customs agents have been able to search pretty much anything they want at a border crossing for a long time, its only the confiscation of laptops policy that's changed.  I seem to recall right-wingers using border searches as a way to try to prove that Clinton was turning the US into a police state, back in the day.

We've been fighting the War on DrugsTM for a lot longer than the War on TerrorTM and I think that the former has actually done a lot more to hurt civil liberties within the US than the later.
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Aeryven Reply #6 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 07:34:00 PM
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And people look at me like I'm crazy when I say I'm afraid to go across the border into the US. Honestly, I just don't want to deal with the potential hassle of going into a country where I essentially have no rights as soon as I hit the border. (Don't bother telling me I do have rights there. My government couldn't do squat if yours decided it wanted to keep me.)

At least as Americans, you still have SOME rights in the US. I'm a nasty, dirty foreigner who's obviously bent on sneaking into your country, killing your pets and children, and stealing your McJobs! OH NOES! I have a beach towel in my suitcase! I couldn't POSSIBLY be on vacation from a country you don't respect! I must be a TERRORIST AS WELL!

Fuck. That. Shit.

Keep your country. Keep your borders. I promise I won't cross either one if I can at all help it.
You may call that paranoia.. but I call it being smart and playing it safe.


Um...

...did that come off as a tad bit snarky?  Huh?
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machiavelli33 Reply #7 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 07:51:05 PM
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Not your typical chinaman.
Not really.

Haha, McJobs.
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da chicken Reply #8 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 04, 2008, 09:41:04 PM
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It's a joke. Laugh.
Don't fuck with me.  I've read Douglas Adams.  I know what you Commonwealth folk can do with towels.
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NoxEquites Reply #9 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 05, 2008, 01:08:14 AM
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I make shiny things, you need them.
The problem is that government agencies make up regulations and enforce them as laws. Remember you can only sue the government if the government lets you.
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Aeryven Reply #10 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 05, 2008, 11:22:16 AM
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Quote from: da chicken on August 04, 2008, 09:41:04 PM
Don't fuck with me.  I've read Douglas Adams.  I know what you Commonwealth folk can do with towels.
LOL
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thedrunkenmonkey Reply #11 in Border Patrol: Above the Constitution of the United States? — Posted August 05, 2008, 01:02:12 PM
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Inebriated Simian (Skype: thedrunkenmonkey)
The irony is, I actually have a thing that allows a user with a laptop travel internationally with nothing but a blank laptop. Or, conversely, I can have laptops shipped back and forth across the country, and access information securely online.

The thing is, I don't like the idea that my person is subject to the whims of the US government when I cross the border into another country. I don't like the idea that I only have my personal rights when I live in the US. I check out. I am licensed to carry a concealed firearm in Washington State. My prints are all on file. I fit no profiles of dangerous individuals. So if my stuff gets searched/sequestered, I should have the RIGHT to know why my personal possessions are under quarantine.

I also don't have much of a problem with requesting someone who opens my laptop to sign an NDA that is 20 pages long.
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