I need to say something. People need to understand this. I'm not really sure about the right words to use, but I can't let it go anymore.

This topic...

It is not okay.

The way people talk about and treat those who are "creepy" is wrong, it's hurtful, it's part of the problem. And you know, I get it. Because I was on that side, too! People who do things like what you're complaining about are wrong, hurtful, and part of the problem. But they didn't really choose to be on their side of this thing anymore than you did. So, choosing to engage in this back-patting scorn-the-loser game, it's not okay.

"Creepy" is the expression of a mental illness that a person contracts when the affection they deserve is an impossible dream for several years. People around them are horrible to them, genuinely awful, truly for no good reason, and it skews their perception of how people work.

If what you normally see between you and comforting touch is a two-story wall with razor wire, sniper towers, and a laser pirahna sewer, a simple locked door seems more like an invitation.

I'm tired of pretending the sick, fucked up, awful things I did when I was a kid are my fault. I am a good person who was beaten into a monster. It has been a massive struggle to return to relative sanity, and I can truly say that I am proud of who I am and the way I treat people now, but it doesn't fucking matter. People can smell what I used to be, and so I have to live in this excoriating filth of loneliness, and it isn't goddamn fair.

If everyone around me had not treated me like shit, I would not have become shit. What happened to me, what happens to these other people who "attack" you, it's a matter of health. But our society will never allow that to be recognized again. In the 70s we almost got it right, but there was puritanical political bullshit, there was second-wave feminism, there was HIV, there was all kinds of stupid crap, and now there are, at a generous estimate, forty legitimate sex surrogates for the whole nation, and they cost significantly more than hookers, who remain difficult to find, expensive to hire, and likely to land you in jail.

This nation expects half its population to sit down and play nice through a permanent oxytocin deficiency, and for some reason, we're all shocked at how massively fucked up things get.

fuck everything

No, you shit, I don't have to answer that, anymore than anyone else here has to explain why they were hurt and reacted the way they did. As it happens, I gave him the card of a place where he could seek help for his issues. Having had my life turned upside-down for very similar shit just before, I did feel a duty to do something for him, and acted on it as best I could. I also talked to my boss about it, because as anyone here will understand, I still felt very uncomfortable and threatened in a place where I had to be every day.

Victims are victims. Offenders are victims. Society is a victim. There are no fucking winners in this game we play.

Hey, don't get mad at S*S, he's the way he is because society made him that way. Every time he does something that upsets you, remember that HE'S the victim here and not responsible for his actions.

you can also choke on a cat cock

etc.

...I appreciate that. Thanks.

Why is it okay for you to rebuff a creepy person, yet also harp on about how it's awful it is that genuine human kindness, comfort, and understanding are so hard to obtain?

And then there's the Bunner policy whereby you rebuff *everyone*, not just the creepy ones. And *then* you harp on about how awful it is that genuine human kindness, comfort and understanding are - much like cake - terrible, terrible lies.

*cracks knuckles* Yeah, I got that down to art.
Now someone pass me some clove cigarettes, some eyeliner and a poetry pad.

mean streets

Yeah, everyone's life sucked somehow. You rose above it. Go you. Seriously, that's awesome.

But this isn't just an excuse. When you say that it is, you're pretty much saying that people who failed a will save are evil, that they deserve their shitty lives and isolation, that they are irretrievable from sin and therefore hell.

Fuck that shit. People cannot be expected to be kind to those who have directly wronged them, but the fact that nobody in this world is willing to help some people remains an injustice.

That'd be great if it made any sense. I have news for you, though: sometimes, if you accept blame for some things, it can't possibly do anything but destroy you. How can you accept yourself as a good person if you have that on your conscience? You can't, and you don't.

To solve some problems, you have to learn why they happened, and if the best answer you come up with is "you did a bad thing," you're not going to get better, let alone anyone else with the same problems.

What the world does to a person matters. It can't be any other way.

No, not remotely. Not even halfway.

What I am saying here, what I want people to know even if they never understand it and tell me nothing but that I'm wrong and stupid is this:

1) The attitude that people who cannot properly approach dating or other interaction are sub-human is itself a problem.

2) The kind of stuff going on in this thread, where people tell stories so everyone can look at them and say "wow, gross!" is that attitude at work. It spreads and alienates through these things. This kind of thing makes people on both sides have less empathy for each other, and that's the root of the problem.

"Creepy" is the nastiest word we have when it comes to sociability and affection. It is a kind of code that says "this person is so awful that it is not worth anyone's time to figure out why." It's not about a person being misunderstood, it's about a person who sees everyone around them going out of their way to avoid understanding.

The people who do bad things are not free of blame. They have a lot of work to do, and they must take action. But some people will never know what to do, because the general populace, the people who are supposedly better than they are, cannot resist throwing something at a man in the stocks.

From the other thread:

I am a good person because I can legitimately say I didn't do those things. "I" was a different person when that stuff happened, one who was very confused.

Your argument doesn't seem internally consistent. If you're all better now and consider it a "different person" who did the things you're ashamed of... and don't carry any personal burden of guilt for those things, then why does it make you feel bad when people call out those behaviors?

You can't have it both ways. Either you take responsibility for the things you've done and feel bad about it and admit that those behaviors are -on you-; blame it all on society and admit that the call-outs make you feel bad because you're still like that; or claim that you've completely changed and let the call-outs apply to the "old you" and wash over the new you. You seem to be switching up between these options depending on the post.

So when somebody says something inappropriate, or is outright harassing you (the same collective 'you' that Arachne was talking about), you should ignore it and let it happen?

Having a shitty life is not an excuse for being a shitty person, I'm sorry.

So when somebody says something inappropriate, or is outright harassing you (the same collective 'you' that Arachne was talking about), you should ignore it and let it happen?

There's miles of things you can do between ignoring somebody and being pointlessly vindictive. Not sure if you knew that.