Also, with autism (as the quoted text discusses) if you are trying to mediate the behavior you do need to make sure the child is aware that it is not acceptable behavior.  It is a disservice to the child to let them have a fit and not 'make a scene' about it.  It is not trying to establishing societal boundaries and is enabling the condition rather than trying to create boundaries.  I understand it is hard, but it needs to be done to attempt progress.

Oh, man, there was a loud kid at the local burger joint yesterday. He could PROJECT and was he shrill? His mother tittered nervously and smiled and said "come on, darling, come on" and the kid was deafeningly screeching "I don't wanna go!"

Best birth control ad ever.

I think part of the problem is that there is a school of child rearing, books written to this affect even, that states to let your children expend their energy and not stop their tantrums.  Spocklike if you will, changing the face of child rearing.

I think part of the problem is that there is a school of child rearing, books written to this affect even, that states to let your children expend their energy and not stop their tantrums.  Spocklike if you will, changing the face of child rearing.

I hate that school of thought.  Kids need discipline and positive lessons as they're growing up.  Letting them "expend their energy" in tantrums just teaches them that they can can throw fits whenever they want. 

Now, expending that energy by running around in the backyard, playing, laughing, having fun all afternoon - that's completely different.  I'm all for that. 

But like I said above, kids do need to learn how to behave in public, and leaving them to throw their fits in a restaurant while the parent does nothing also teaches nothing. 

...I also believe that kids need corporal punishment every now and then.  I certainly got my ass smacked more than a few times as a kid, and that's one real quick way to learn that you just fucked up big-time.  (usually when I got my younger siblings hurt at home - can't remember ever getting smacked in public)

Totally agreed, TGU -- not to mention the entitlement complexes it seems to give a lot of kids. I remember reading a fair few articles on that topic at one point, how this culture of never punishing kids but always telling them how special they are is actually causing them a lot of harm later in life.

Old, but may be relevant to your interests.

Some stereotypes are true. I heard about it every now and again, black parents not spanking their children. But few black parents I knew had ANY trouble bringing down the wrath of Almighty God when their children acted the fool. Happened to me and my brother. More over, it happened to my brother. talk about scared straight.

But I will talk about the opposite side. My side. Now, I was never a trouble maker, but school bored me. It all seemed like a waste of time because I knew the stuff and didn't see why I should care. I didn't do homework, but did great on tests. Still got me C's. Not acceptable for my dad.

Luckily, my dad worked from when I got up to until... 10 or 11. Had to think about clients and buildings, so couldn't focus on me. My mom worked also, but this was still a time where all the home stuff was governed by the woman (don't get me started on that), so she was worried about bills and feeding us. So, I just got clever. I hid some report cards, I pretended to get jumped, whatever I could to hide. I just wouldn't talk about it.

You see, because there will be a bad parent if a situation of corporal punishment isn't handled just right. And the fear of just ONE bad parent can distance a child from their parental relationship when the fear of survival is at hand. Given the time frame I just stated, you can tell I didn't spend that much time with my dad. The interaction we had in the early years was of the punisher. Now, yes, I get it. He was an architect in New York City and he had insane hours. Working with some of the same people he did, I can see why he was often angry when he got home.

That means nothing to a 8 year old kid.

To me, it was that my father didn't want to be around, and when he did choose to interact was us, he took his anger out on us. I went into my parents bedroom almost every night and hid from my dad, I was so scared of him. I ran into my room before he finished opening the door. He may have spanked me twice in my life, but no one could put on the Angry as well as my dad. It took my dad's stroke when I was 24 to finally start to patch things up, when I had to take over everything.

There are so many factors to corporal punishment that I don't think most people really realize them all. It's not about little feelings, it's about a child simply not understanding. Used well, it's a powerful tool. Used improperly, by a man who's hardly in your life and the few times you see him a week, he's upset about how the Department of Buildings is screwing him over.... well, Children are smart and stupid at the same time. They can make connections like that, but it's not always the right one. However, it will stick with them.

Oh, I know. The idea of corporal punishment was brought up, though, and I'm just stating what could happen if people decided to go that route.

It's kind of like a nation who sucks at diplomacy shrugging their shoulders and deciding to storm in with their big guns. It's just folly. If you can't handle words, then chances are answering with violence will just ruin any understanding or point that it was supposed to convey. If I don't understand why you're bombing me, I'm just going to see you as the devil and answer back anyway I can.

that's my point with corporal punishment. Few parents even know how to get through to their children with words. For those parents who go ahead hitting without knowing how to relate to their children, they are only going to breed violence and anger with their actions. The only thing that will be solved is that the children will try not to get caught, and push on to bigger and worse things.