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Index — California government forcing PG&E to build renewable power plants Pages: 1 [2] 3
Bunner Reply #20 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 22, 2008, 12:14:49 PM
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Wolpertinger > Bunnicula

Thanks. I was curious as to how they divvied it all up.
I kinda figured it worked sorta like that.

So, the static rate, is that kinda like, say, investing in a fixed-rate gas contract for like, five years? Is that sorta how it works?
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sinic Reply #21 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 22, 2008, 12:25:53 PM
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Slack.

So here's the thing from my bill.  I use the green system here in Mass.  I'm going to apologize right now for how high the KWh is right now, but our air con was on the fritz for a bit with the filter clogged and so it was running much more than normal.  Our consumption should hopefully go down soon, but anyways, you can see that it shows I'm getting 70% from hydro and 30% from wind.


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TGU Reply #22 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 12:05:10 PM
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"Big damn heroes, sir!"

My energy doesn't necessarily come from the green source.  They estimate, based on lots of math I don't have handy, how much green energy they'll need to dump into the grid to cover my needs.  They 'reserve' that much with the wind farm or solar farm folks.  Then, the 'reserve' gets dumped into the grid and I pull as much as I need from the grid.  If I go over my limit, what they reserved for me, then I have to pay at the (usually higher) non-green kilowatt rate.

...which is why it's a farce.  They aren't generating any LESS electricity from standard sources just because you've signed up for green energy.  If you go over your limit, they make money hand over fist and they still haven't reduced the amount of pollution they're putting out.

THAT is the free market at work.
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Dral Reply #23 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 12:16:33 PM

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Unnatural Blond

They would be generating less electricity, though. Because the electricity that Badger (and everyone else who has signed up for green electricity) is using comes from renewable sources. The energy companies are not going to generate more electricity than is required because they are selling it. If people are not buying that energy, they would be throwing money down the toilet. The excess Badger may have to pay for would be generated from non-renewable sources but if Badger sticks to her limit, then those sources are not required, so the electricity is not generated.

Electricity companies generate as little as possible at any time because it costs them to generate it. They are not going to continue to generate electricity when there is no demand for it because they wouldn't get paid for it. And that is the free market at work.
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Kyle J Cardoza Reply #24 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 12:36:20 PM
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Not the boss anymore.

And here I sit, in a town where the only sources of electricity are the hydro plant and the wind farm. Weird.
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jabbaciv Reply #25 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 01:41:12 PM
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And here I sit, in a town where the only sources of electricity are the hydro plant and the wind farm. Weird.

Lucky Canadians, living in a first world country and all.
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Kyle J Cardoza Reply #26 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 01:50:12 PM
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Not the boss anymore.

Hey, I'd be happy with a nuclear plant, if it was a modern design. I'm sick of all those anti-nuclear greenies who can't un-hoop their craniums long enough to see that it's a necessary step on the road to a better world.
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TGU Reply #27 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 02:07:47 PM
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"Big damn heroes, sir!"

I don't know if Portland gets any electricity from wind farms.  PGE just depends on the hydro plant at Bonneville Dam.  That's where we've always gotten our power from.  We USED to have a nuke plant, but they shut it down and then imploded the old cooling tower.
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TGU Reply #28 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 23, 2008, 11:55:57 PM
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"Big damn heroes, sir!"

...and that makes me realize why my idea of what's going on with Badger's power is so at odds with Dral's.  Portland General Electric gets all its electricity from hydro-power.  It costs them essentially nothing to generate extra.  They tried doing something similar to what Badger's talking about (with solar power instead of wind) a few years back, and it caused a big brou-ha-ha for the exact reasons I stated earlier.  I forgot not all cities have the Columbia flowing by them.  My bad!
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Kyle J Cardoza Reply #29 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 24, 2008, 12:39:49 AM
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Not the boss anymore.

The St. Mary's river is no slouch; it's where Lake Superior drains into Lake Huron. That's a lot of water, and the river currently powers two separate cities, plus extra sent to the rest of the grid.
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da chicken Reply #30 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 24, 2008, 04:37:43 AM

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It's a joke. Laugh.

...and that makes me realize why my idea of what's going on with Badger's power is so at odds with Dral's.  Portland General Electric gets all its electricity from hydro-power.  It costs them essentially nothing to generate extra.  They tried doing something similar to what Badger's talking about (with solar power instead of wind) a few years back, and it caused a big brou-ha-ha for the exact reasons I stated earlier.  I forgot not all cities have the Columbia flowing by them.  My bad!

Gawd, didn't you ever play Civilization?
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jabbaciv Reply #31 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 24, 2008, 07:22:32 AM
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I'd have a lot less problems with nuclear power if we had a way of dealing with spent nuclear rods other then "throw them in a hole in the ground for a really long time and hope nothing bad happens". Seems as shortsighted as fossil fuel, but over a much longer scale.
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Gudy Reply #32 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 24, 2008, 09:56:04 AM
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So here's the thing from my bill.

Two slightly OT things: 1. any American kvetching about rising energy costs will get laughed at by me. Extensively. At current exchange rates I pay almost exactly ten times as much per kWh.
2. Over what period was that consumption? A month? A quarter?
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Pixie Reply #33 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 24, 2008, 10:25:00 AM

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AN HOUR!

FOR WE ARE IN AMERICA AND MUST CONSUME ALLLLLL.

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Bunner Reply #34 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 24, 2008, 10:32:47 AM
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Wolpertinger > Bunnicula

*believes human body heat and electrical activity are a great source of BTUs*

The hard part is trying to figure out how to cram a 6 foot 200 pound man into a AAA battery.

Soylent batteries.....ARE PEOPLE.


Or we could always take Flash's wife hostage and force him to run on a giant treadmill.
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TGU Reply #35 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 01:58:59 AM
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"Big damn heroes, sir!"

I'd have a lot less problems with nuclear power if we had a way of dealing with spent nuclear rods other then "throw them in a hole in the ground for a really long time and hope nothing bad happens". Seems as shortsighted as fossil fuel, but over a much longer scale.

Step 1: load spend rods into a rocket.
Step 2: aim the rocket in the general direction of the Sun.
Step 3: launch.

Sol: the solar system's most impressive trash incinerator.
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Kyle J Cardoza Reply #36 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 02:18:17 AM
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Step 1: load spend rods into a rocket.
Step 2: aim the rocket in the general direction of the Sun.
Step 3: launch.

Sol: the solar system's most impressive trash incinerator.

Step 4: rocket pulls a Challenger, spreading atomized spent nuclear fuel over a wide, probably populated area.

Better idea:

Step 1: recycle the fuel until you just can't get another Watt from it.
Step 2: encase the leftovers in a lot of lead.
Step 3: dump it into the Mariana Trench, so deep underwater that bringing it back up is utterly infeasible without a Star Trek-style transporter.
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phobos Reply #37 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 02:35:49 AM

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Step 1: load spend rods into a rocket.
Step 2: aim the rocket in the general direction of the Sun.
Step 3: launch.

Sol: the solar system's most impressive trash incinerator.

Besides what Kyle already pointed out about safety, I should also add that something like, what, 96% of a spent fuel rod is still perfectly good uranium? Reprocessing is a really good idea, once energy is expensive enough to make it economical to do so. You don't want to throw away that waste: you'll regret it once all the richest uranium deposits have been mined out.

As for aiming at the Sun, it's actually easier to launch a payload to infinity than it is to hit the Sun. Because of the free boost you get from Earth's orbital velocity, you're already more than halfway there.
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jabbaciv Reply #38 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 04:00:22 AM
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We can't stop here, this is bat country