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Index — California government forcing PG&E to build renewable power plants Pages: 1 2 [3]
phobos Reply #40 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 08:51:12 AM

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It's not renewable, but there's a LOT of fuel around. We're just being grossly inefficient about how we use it. Breeder reactors convert thorium into uranium as they go, and the world is not in any way short of thorium. But they're expensive to run; it's cheaper, while the uranium lasts, to just burn it straight up in a less sophisticated and not quite so ruinously expensive reactor.

Uranium supplies aren't as low as it's commonly said anyway. People say there are 50-or-so years of supply. But that's only at the current price point. Once that runs out, let's say the price of uranium goes up by a factor of ten or so. That makes poorer uranium deposits economical to mine, it makes breeder reactors and reprocessing plants economical to run, and - since the cost of fuel is negligible compared to the enormous cost of running the plant itself - it doesn't much affect the price per joule of nuclear energy. Nuclear has enormous fixed costs, so it really becomes competitive when energy is expensive.
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Jar-Jar, you're a genius!

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Imaginary Reply #41 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 08:59:52 AM
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sqrt(-1)

The problem I have with Nuclear energy is that it's not renewable.  It's as short sighted as fossil fuel, really, since there's a limited amount of it and you may think it's the be all, end all solution, but then in 100 years you're back to being fucked.

Then that's bought us 100 years of research time.  Not peanuts.
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Surely the hero is the one who rescues someone.  Not the one who ineffectually combusts under basic fiery conditions.
Scary-Go-Round,  March 4, 2008
jabbaciv Reply #42 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 09:30:10 AM
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We can't stop here, this is bat country

The issue with energy is not that we don't have plenty of it to use. It's that we don't have the wisdom as a species to use it well.
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Don't confuse a position that is both a logically and morally defensible one with dogma.
"The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times." -SCOTUS Justice Kennedy
Bunner Reply #43 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 01:08:10 PM
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Wolpertinger > Bunnicula

Step 2: encase the leftovers in a lot of lead.
Step 3: dump it into the Mariana Trench, so deep underwater that bringing it back up is utterly infeasible without a Star Trek-style transporter.

But... But... The poor little tube worms!
WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE TUBE WORMS?
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I've got more issues than National Geographic.
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TGU Reply #44 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 01:19:20 PM
Just in time for WRATH!

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"Big damn heroes, sir!"

As for aiming at the Sun, it's actually easier to launch a payload to infinity than it is to hit the Sun. Because of the free boost you get from Earth's orbital velocity, you're already more than halfway there.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying, Phobos.  Can you explain that a bit more for me?
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If I could just reach orbit, then I'd be a wanted fan.
"Mars: It's like a cosmic scratch-n-sniff sticker!" -Bunner
Bridget "The Salamander" Kelley - she can burn you with her brain!
jabbaciv Reply #45 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 02:45:09 PM
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We can't stop here, this is bat country

But... But... The poor little tube worms!
WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE TUBE WORMS?

The tube worms will think of the tube worms when the radiation causes them to mutate into MASSIVE HOSTILE WYRMS, who will be devoted to wiping out the human race!
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Don't confuse a position that is both a logically and morally defensible one with dogma.
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Bunner Reply #46 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 03:31:32 PM
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Wolpertinger > Bunnicula

There's something very important I forgot to tell you.
What?
Don't feed radioactive waste to the worms.
Why?
It would be bad.
I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, "bad"?
Try to imagine being swallowed whole by a giant annelid, and every molecule of your body being slowly digested over the course of several weeks.
Total food pyramid reversal.
Right. That's bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks.


And I second the explanation request. I'm a little hazy on how aiming into dead space is harder than aiming at the sun. I mean, granted, empty space is a lot easier to hit, but wouldn't aiming for the sun be a lot like hitting the broadside of a barn? The most effort is pretty much all in breaking out of orbit, after that it doesn't really matter much which direction you shoot for, does it?
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jabbaciv Reply #47 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 04:21:27 PM
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We can't stop here, this is bat country

I think the point is that if you aim for deep space, all you have to do is break orbit and set off for points unknown. The sun, while large, is a dot to hit, a dot situated in the infinite vastness of space.

Also, I'd be worried it'd be like Star Trek Generations when that crazy guy fired a missile into the sun and it actually hit. Somewhat quickly.
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Don't confuse a position that is both a logically and morally defensible one with dogma.
"The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times." -SCOTUS Justice Kennedy
Symmetry Reply #48 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 25, 2008, 05:48:21 PM
I've donated. Why haven't you?

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安堵竜

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying, Phobos.  Can you explain that a bit more for me?

So you've got your capsule of radioactive waste here on Earth and send it to out of Earth's gravity well.  Now, you could decide you want to send it down into the sun, but that takes some doing, because the capsule is traveling at the same huge velocity that the Earth is and if you want to actually get it into the Sun you have to cancel all the momentum of its orbit so it'll fall straight in instead of missing and falling into a new orbit that might very well hit something important some day.  Alternativly, you could speed it up in its path around the Sun so that it breaks free of the Sun's gravity and sails off into infinity. 

It turns out that doing the first actually takes about twice as much rocket propellant as doing the second.
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'Because ten billion years' time is so fragile, so ephemeral... it arouses such a bittersweet, almost heartbreaking fondness.'
Coyote Reply #49 in The power of regulation? — Posted August 29, 2008, 08:29:08 AM
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I'll take American History for $2000 please, Alex.

...and that makes me realize why my idea of what's going on with Badger's power is so at odds with Dral's.  Portland General Electric gets all its electricity from hydro-power.  It costs them essentially nothing to generate extra.  They tried doing something similar to what Badger's talking about (with solar power instead of wind) a few years back, and it caused a big brou-ha-ha for the exact reasons I stated earlier.  I forgot not all cities have the Columbia flowing by them.  My bad!

They're about to go more toward wind farms in the Gorge too; my uncle just got back a couple weeks ago from training a batch of workers near Pendleton in heavy equipment used for general maintenance.  I think PGE's doing that in case hydro becomes even more unfashionable in the Northwet in favor of the fishies.
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As soon as you're born, you start dying, so you might as well have a good time. -- Cake, "Sheep Go To Heaven"

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