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Index — Future of books? Pages: [1]
sinic    Topic opened March 05, 2008, 06:23:13 AM
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Slack.

Amazon Kindle

So I just bounced over to Amazon to see when the release date for SSBB was for the Wii and found this on the front page.  Evidently it's basically just a screen that lets you read books, newspapers or whatever, but it's connected instead of to wireless networks to the cell phone networks so anywhere you get cell phone signal you can get signal on this thing.  They say you can buy books, newspapers or whatever you feel like instantly from the "online" shop and then have them delivered right to your unit.

So what do people think of this?  I'm currently mentally filing it under "neat, but ultimately useless."  I don't think it'll catch on, especially not with a $400 price point.  Most people who want to read stuff on the go will do so on their cell phones or laptops.  For the same price you can get an Asus Eee PC which has the added functionality of a web browser, chat program and open office in addition to being able to read e-books.  Maybe if they built in more functionality it'll become viable, but for now I'm not holding my breath.

Edit to Add:  Just read this bit on the screen:

Quote
Paper-like Screen
Utilizing a new high-resolution display technology called electronic paper, Kindle provides a crisp black-and-white screen that resembles the appearance and readability of printed paper. The screen works using ink, just like books and newspapers, but displays the ink particles electronically. It reflects light like ordinary paper and uses no backlighting, eliminating the glare associated with other electronic displays. As a result, Kindle can be read as easily in bright sunlight as in your living room.The screen never gets hot so you can comfortably read as long as you like.

Sounds a bit interesting, but again not overly exciting.  It's really doesn't sound plausible to have an actual "ink" display so I assume they're just dumbing it down and using familiar terms for the 40+ crowd so they won't be as afraid of it and try to pitchfork it.
Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 06:27:46 AM by sinic Logged

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Pixie Reply #1 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 06:43:33 AM

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper
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dadu Reply #2 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 07:57:27 AM
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I honestly don't like reading anything long on a screen.  I prefer books. 
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Starlock Reply #3 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 08:02:13 AM

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I agree, for the most part, dadu, however I recently bought an audio book of Weber's War of Honor.  Included with it is a CD all the Honor Harrington books on it plus some other works by Baen authors.

It's like getting over two dozen books for free, so I'll deal with reading them on the PC.

(Note:  No, I haven't read any Harrington up until now.  STFU!)
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Gudy Reply #4 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 08:47:17 AM
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So what do people think of this?  I'm currently mentally filing it under "neat, but ultimately useless."  I don't think it'll catch on, especially not with a $400 price point.  Most people who want to read stuff on the go will do so on their cell phones or laptops.  For the same price you can get an Asus Eee PC which has the added functionality of a web browser, chat program and open office in addition to being able to read e-books.  Maybe if they built in more functionality it'll become viable, but for now I'm not holding my breath.

The price is a bit steep, yes. Although you need to figure in the charges for using the cell phone network, which don't directly come out of your pocket, but are probably somehow figured into the cost of the device unless Amazon absorbs them as a loss leader.

I don't want to read stuff on something like a cell phone display, and I don't want to carry a laptop everywhere. The lack of web access is certainly a downside, but on the other hand WLAN eats up a lot of energy, thus shortening battery life which is otherwise measured in weeks for devices with e-ink displays. Case in point, another e-book reader with a slightly larger e-ink display (and a much higher price), the iRex iLiad, has WLAN and a battery life of 10-15 hours.

More functionality will likely come, as the trend seems ever stronger towards converged devices. There's already a device, AFAIK in the prototype stage, which combines a cell phone with a roll-up e-ink display, thus squeezing the eye-friendly, larger screen into a smaller form factor.

Me? I generally don't like converged devices. I don't have a PDA. I don't carry a laptop with me everywhere. I only have a cell phone because my employer pays for it and I need it for customer support in out-of-office hours. But I like to read a lot. Having to lug a handful of books around for a week-long business trip gets really old really fast, though, and a dedicated e-book reader with its ability to carry anywhere from dozens to thousands of books in a convenient package and to allow me to read this stuff anywhere there is light (while not having to worry about having packed the right wall plug adapter because the battery will last and last and last) is just the thing I need.

As a result, I recently bought a Hanlin eReader v3, which has the same screen but lacks the sell-your-first-born-to-Amazon tie ins of the Kindle. For some of the musings leading up to it, read this thread. I have a few quibbles with its software, but am otherwise quite happy with it.

In the same vein, most of the people who have actually bought a Kindle seem to be really quite happy with it. The naysayers usually fall into one or more of several groups: people who have never seen or used the Kindle in real life, "Luddites" who want to hold an actual piece of paper to read from, technical types who are critical of the way that Amazon still pretty much owns the device even after having sold it to you for quite a bit of money and who want the thing to be more openly accessible, people outside the US, where all of the convenience functionality that comes from the cell phone network access isn't available, or people who prefer converged devices.

Quote
Sounds a bit interesting, but again not overly exciting.  It's really doesn't sound plausible to have an actual "ink" display so I assume they're just dumbing it down and using familiar terms for the 40+ crowd so they won't be as afraid of it and try to pitchfork it.

Pixie has already dug up the Wikipedia link, so I'll skip the explanation and simply say that e-ink does look markedly different from a CRT or LCD screen. Much better, in fact, especially in brighter conditions. LCDs with their backlighting are nice for darker rooms, but even if the objective is to read in the bed room while not disturbing the spouse, there are clip-on lights to help you.
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dadu Reply #5 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 09:05:59 AM
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I agree, for the most part, dadu, however I recently bought an audio book of Weber's War of Honor.  Included with it is a CD all the Honor Harrington books on it plus some other works by Baen authors.

It's like getting over two dozen books for free, so I'll deal with reading them on the PC.

(Note:  No, I haven't read any Harrington up until now.  STFU!)

I love the Harrington books, that is pretty awesome.  Maybe the Kindle would encourage to read on non-paper, but the $400 is a bit excessive to me...
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fae Reply #6 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 09:12:15 AM
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braiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins!

I love the Harrington books, that is pretty awesome.  Maybe the Kindle would encourage to read on non-paper, but the $400 is a bit excessive to me...

It'll go down in price as the technology becomes easier to produce.   Great for students, I would think, if you can have all of your books right there on one unit.  I want one, but there are other large electronics purchases that are slated first...  new ipod to replace the one we lost in January, Ogre's plasma t.v. and xbox360... digital camera to replace the one DoomTater gave a bath.

<sighs>  Oh well.


Also, Weber kicks ass...  Heart
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Gudy Reply #7 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 12:03:27 PM
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It'll go down in price as the technology becomes easier to produce.

That seems to be exactly the problem. There is one, count'em, one, factory in the whole world producing electrophoretic e-ink displays for the mass market. And that one has reached capacity (at a supposed 1 million units per year). Essentially all E-book readers using that technology need to share that capacity and as a result are constantly sold out and on back order. Add to that the fact that e-ink displays are significantly more expensive to produce than LCDs, and the price is unlikely to go down anytime soon.

There is one known competitive technology, bi-stable LCDs. Those share the nice property that like e-ink they only need electricity in order to change the display, but not to maintain it. They would also be much cheaper to produce than e-ink. Alas, that technology doesn't seem ready for the mass market quite yet, although the One-Laptop-per-Child computer is rumoured to have one of those.
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Anumati Reply #8 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 05, 2008, 11:53:37 PM
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This is where I say something clever.

I find the screens on cell phones and pda's to be annoyingly small. I'd love to own a Kindle or something like it, other than the price. (and not too keen on being tied to one retailer sort of thing)

Like Gudy, I read a lot. I'd really like to get that new novel that is only out in hardcover, and be able to read it on the train or at the bus stop. But I don't, because that hardcover is large and unwieldy and annoying. Instead I wait for the paperback. Also, if I'm not careful I can run out of book, and that sucks.

I'd really like to carry multiple volumes around with me, and to be able to get new ones whenever I want. But I'd also like to not get the headaches and that eyeballs falling out sensation that reading too much text on a screen gives me.
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dadu Reply #9 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 20, 2008, 12:09:31 PM
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Oh my god, check the front page of Amazon.  The Kindle sold out in 5.5 hours.
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sinic Reply #10 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 20, 2008, 12:14:30 PM
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Slack.

Did it say anywhere how many units they had for the first run?  Reading up on the e-ink screen it actually does sound pretty neat.  The high start-up cost and proprietary nature of it still kind of turn me off a bit, but having one of these for each worker in a lab with a full index of the lab's SOPs would be awesome.  Also, if they were able to incorporate a touch screen in with it it would be great for reading PDFs and marking them up or even having a true e-notebook.

I imagine we'll be seeing all that come out within the next generation and it's going to be freakin' awesome.
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marpa Reply #11 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 20, 2008, 12:18:38 PM

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It's been getting a lot of press in the tech-podcast world.  The ones who love it REALLY love it and the ones who hate it REALLY hate it.  For me, I wouldn't pay $400 for the current unit.  A lower price or more features (net access or at least rss feeds, etc...) would probably persuade me to buy. 

There have also been some criticism of the user interface.  It could be a little more comfortable and intuitive, but they say you get used to it. 

Oh my god, check the front page of Amazon.  The Kindle sold out in 5.5 hours.

During the first run, they were going on ebay for over $1000.
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Antero Reply #12 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 26, 2008, 10:46:16 PM
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Not your monkey.

Whip's dad has one.  We'll see how it goes with him.
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Gudy Reply #13 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 27, 2008, 03:24:40 AM
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Did it say anywhere how many units they had for the first run?

Nope. Amazon is incredibly coy about sales figures for the Kindle. My guesstimate, based on the stated maximum capacity of the producer of the e-ink screens (1 million units per year) and some rumored sales figures for other devices with that screen is somewhere between 5000 to 20000 units per month.

Reading up on the e-ink screen it actually does sound pretty neat.  The high start-up cost and proprietary nature of it still kind of turn me off a bit, but having one of these for each worker in a lab with a full index of the lab's SOPs would be awesome.  Also, if they were able to incorporate a touch screen in with it it would be great for reading PDFs and marking them up or even having a true e-notebook.

The iRex iLiad, which has a bigger screen and is way more expensive (around USD 700), can do that: it has a touch screen, annotation ability with a stylus, and WiFi.
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Scix Reply #14 in Amazon Kindle — Posted March 28, 2008, 07:14:05 AM

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I made my book kindle-accessible.
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lil_poiple_ash Reply #15 in Amazon Kindle — Posted April 05, 2008, 04:34:49 AM

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I'd worry about headaches and at 400 dollars that isn't a risk I would be willing to take. Plus I like holding a book in my hands.

I might invest in one when i go back to school especially if they have more features. Or if the price drops a lot. But before then I'll stick with my over sized purses and lugging 3-4 books everywhere I go.

Though it will be scary how much I'll read then. The only thing that slows my reading down is having to turn the page a lot of the time. When I do read on screens I read even faster than usual. Book  buying is already expensive so I'm not sure speeding me up would be a good thing.
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Scix Reply #16 in Amazon Kindle — Posted April 05, 2008, 10:20:18 AM

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It would be nice if they'd donate some ti libraries; I'd be more likely to get one if I could play with one for a bit first.
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da chicken Reply #17 in Amazon Kindle — Posted April 05, 2008, 02:57:41 PM

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It's a joke. Laugh.


This is really the key.  If you haven't seen one of these kinds of displays, they're incredible for black and white text.  Impossibly crisp, highly readable, no glare, no loss of visibility from oblique angles, no need for a backlight.  It really is very, very close to paper.  When the page changes, it does so slowly (like an early LCD when the battery was low).  The technology is still a bit new, but this will work well eventually.

But, IMO, $400 is still too much.  When they can get it to $200, it will break out from being niche.  When they can get it to $100, it will be ubiquitous.
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Index  — Future of books? Pages: [1]