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Zahnnie Reply #1260 in Tales of MU — Posted August 04, 2008, 08:54:55 AM
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I *heart* pie (sexily).

MOAR made me want to add more holes to my ears so I can have a full elven spread. (Which, btw, sounds totally dirty.)

I think I may well do it.
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fae Reply #1261 in Tales of MU — Posted August 04, 2008, 09:58:13 AM
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braiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins!

It does sound dirty, but I want.  Specifically, I want the top one to be the pretty leaf earring Arachne has.  My mom went to look, but said she couldn't find one.  </sulk>
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S*S Reply #1262 in Tales of MU — Posted August 04, 2008, 03:44:58 PM
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The Ogre Reply #1263 in Tales of MU — Posted August 04, 2008, 04:57:28 PM
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Hell, in MUVerse, all those fucking enchantments stack apparently outside of body-slot limitations, I'd rack my ear until I didn't have any space left.

Heck, I could probably do a piercing or two with my new beard.

--fje
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Gudy Reply #1264 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 02:04:11 PM
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Coming back from a one week vacation, I had been looking forward to catching up on ToMU and MOAR, but now I feel kinda disappointed. I don't have a problem with it apparently having been buttsex week (far from it), but the ass to mouth was icky, and the whole Steff+Mack thing felt kinda... off... in much the same way that the violent end to the Ian+Mack date felt right to me.

When the highlights are the props (living tatoo, enchanted elven spread), background (Cirque du Soleil with dragons, Clan Sternbauer & Company), and support characters (I *like* Hans from CS&C), you know it was a weak week.

I also think that she's full of shit on the whole new media thing, and that the traditional novel publishing route is the traditional way of doing things for a good goddamn reason, and not simply because the internet wasn't invented back when book publishing was.

To paraphrase Charles Stross, who is a successful, published author and gets the net both technically and from a usage standpoint, the traditional publishing industry is completely, utterly borked. It is so for a damn good reason, though. It's practices are the sum total of all those things that haven't driven a publishing house into bankrupcy for the last handful of centuries. The internet is terribly disruptive to the traditional publishing model for several different reasons (pirating, self-publishing, etc.). It's also hard to change a publisher so they make clueful use of the net as a distribution and sales channel for stuff which people actually want to buy and not just a promotion tool, precisely because all traditional publishers know that deviating from current practices will kill them.

I'm not sure that AE's way will be the one true way to make a living as a published author on the net, since the Baen model at least also seems to work quite well. Heck, I'm not even sure that there will be one true way to publish stuff on the net and make a living from it, but it does seem to work for a niche author like AE, and I don't see why she should be the exception as opposed to the rule. Although I will admit that her current schedule seems completely insane to me.
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The Ogre Reply #1265 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 02:59:52 PM
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I think things are changing, but I think it will be the transformation of the book-buying audience AT LARGE which will cause this change in any meaningful way.

Which is to say, the most popular online self-published content cannot hope to match the numbers of John Grisham.

And that's not because he's good.

It's because Joe Random Guy buys his books.  He walks into the B&N and he picks it up off the NYT Best Sellers rack at the front of the store and he checks out with it and he reads it.

And that's sales.

Publishing is a wacky thing, for sure, but publishing is nothing without the audience.  Publishing is lean, in an economic sense, because costs are high and audience is low (compared to TV and Movies audience). 

The danger comes from publishing being too slow to react when the audience DOES shift in sufficient numbers to impact survivability, and in finding a sustainable business model.

The way I see things going, sadly, is that in 20-40 years, what we know as writing may simply disappear, if there is no sustainable business model found to fund it.

Because the current: "Write it, pimp it, try to get donations for it" model leads to an infinitely fractured audience.

Traditional publishing does one thing very well ... it weeds the shit out from the gold.  They pay people whose professional job is to sit around and crush the hopes and dreams of People Who Cannot Cut It.  Writers make money because only so many books are published for print.  This is roughly less than 5% of the submissions that come in.  That means, essentially, 95% of the stuff that WANTS to be available is so much spam.  The people writing it think it is good, but it isn't. 

In the land of the internet, we, the audience, have to do the weeding.  We have to sift through 95% worth of shit to find 5% of gold.  And it isn't easy to spot.  You might read something for a long while that is "good enough" but isn't great.  You might be the only person that likes somebody else's writing.  And you're supporting that person with 1$ and 3$ at a time, every few weeks, which is buying this person a beer now and then but isn't paying their bills. 

Because right now I think AE is doing well because MU is popular.  And MU is popular not because it is GOOD but because it is SUFFICIENT.  It is the only modern-magical sex-focused pansexual kink and gay-friendly serial story that I've found.  There are a few others cropping up.  But many readers, I suspect, are reading because it is SUFFICIENT.  Some people don't like the sex.  Some people don't like the constant homosexuality.  Some people don't like ass-to-mouth.  Some people are terribly bored by side-stories.

If something better came along, they'd jump ship.  Specifically if something THEY LIKE better came along, they'd jump.

AE is successful as she is for the same reasons PUBLISHING works.  Because if you want it, you have to put up with the crap you don't like to get it. 

A general proliferation of internet-based publishing will eventually, I feel, kill her.  Because as one guy peels off for "MU Without Sex" and another one peels off for "Sex Without Elves", etc etc, the readership will dwindle and the buck here or there will no longer support even a shoestring budget and she'll be back to working in the salt mine. 

Her only salvation is ADVERTISING.  Knowledge.  If she can keep people from finding out about competitors or can keep herself more visible than the other guy, people won't KNOW they have a choice of something they would personally like better, and they'll stay, and they'll pay. 

Big Box stores drive sales because people only know and see the shit on the front shelf.  The best-sellers.  And trickling down to the racks ... the bigger sellers are the books turned cover-out, followed by the established authors (name recognition) and such and such down to Little Sally Nobody's Spine-Out Genre Book On Unpopular Subjects On The Bottom Shelf. 

And Little Sally Nobody STILL has a leg up because her half-shit book is still THERE and not dying on the slush pile somewhere where nobody will see it or pay for it.  Somebody has done you the service of killing the 499 similar works that sucked even worse than hers.  Little Sally Nobody gets the 5 grand, the others get nothing.

In the land of the Internet everybody gets $10.

And that might seem great, but it kills craft.  If nobody can support themselves writing, nobody gets GOOD at it.  Everybody is a hobbyist, nobody is a craftsman. 

Perfect distribution SOUNDS great, but if nobody kills the crap out there, nobody makes any money ... together.

--fje
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S*S Reply #1266 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 04:58:49 PM
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I think MU is good, and that AE is a damn good writer. I just think she stretches herself a little thin sometimes and the quality degenerates as a result. I wouldn't criticise if I thought her writing was all bad: Id just stop reading and go elsewhere. It's this "Why the hell is there a dead fly in my soup" kind of thing that occasionally happens that motivates me to rant: that, and she deals with provacative fare quite a lot, and so she inspires debate, even if it's just over how worthless or not Puddy is, etc.

I don't entirely agree with your post. Most webcomics and online novels are labours of love, often supported by their creators rather then donations, and only a handful of the really good ones manage to pay the bills for the people who make them. Check the wikipedia page of self-supporting webcomics; there's not that much crap on there, with the notable exception of Ctrl Alt Delete, and even with that, you've got to grudgingly acknowledge that Tim Buckley caters to his target audience pretty well. And Megatokyo, but same deal.

I think it's kind of the same deal as the publishing industry, the top dogs tend to occupy the best slots and funnel a consumers disposable income and page views away from the smaller comics. Good webcomics rise from the murk by word-of-mouth, and then advertising and reviews.

On Moar MU: meh on the buildup. His mum will know. When it comes to their spawn, mothers flit between knowing everything and being totally clueless, and Im betting she's the former on this one.
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The Ogre Reply #1267 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 05:18:22 PM
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I haven't looked but how many of the self-sustaining webcomics are OLD, before "webcomics" became a big thing and everybody with a pen and a dream started posting shit to the internet regularly.

Which is to say I thought most of them were well established.

Also, that they're all labors of love go to my point.  "Please donate" isn't really a sustainable business model, one, and while advertising often is, the kind of page views necessary to generate real income is quite high, requiring a very established comic to do.

Nobody is going to be able to write traditional NOVELS and churn out four or five of them before their writing begins to pay.

Additionally ... unfortunately dedication and passion and love do not equate talent, craftsmanship, or basic ability.

--fje
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Gudy Reply #1268 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 05:40:59 PM
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"Please donate" isn't really a sustainable business model, one, and while advertising often is, the kind of page views necessary to generate real income is quite high, requiring a very established comic to do.

To put this around, writing books under the traditional publishing model isn't really a sustainable business model, either. The kind of sales figures necessary to generate real income is quite high, requiring an established name as a writer (or a metric shit load of luck and advertising) to achieve. Seriously, the number of published authors making a living from their craft is tiny.

Also, I seriously contest your assertion that traditional publishing is good at "weeding out the shit from the gold". Sturgeon's Law applies to bestseller lists, too, in my experience.
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sinic Reply #1269 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 06:20:39 PM
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Slack.

Big T Truth

I think Ogre nails it on the head.  Internet publishing is taking the place of short story publishing in traditional media.  Maybe the publishing houses will perk up and scoop up web serial authors.  Maybe it is already happening with good authors.

Most written work, though, ends up in the publishing house round bin.  Sure these people can do it as hobbyists, but it's like the difference between your mom pulling out a splinter or treating a scraped knee versus a surgeon removing a blood clot from your brain.

Not everyone who writes a novel is going to get it picked up and have it mass produced.  Even fewer are going to be able to make a living off it.  Such is life.
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The Ogre Reply #1270 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 07:24:14 PM
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Also, I seriously contest your assertion that traditional publishing is good at "weeding out the shit from the gold". Sturgeon's Law applies to bestseller lists, too, in my experience.

1.)  Traditional publishing pretty much HAS to be a sustainable business model seeing it has, ahem, sustained itself.  On the face of it, it hasn't really CHANGED very much in a long long time, just the costs of production and the size of the audience have fluctuated. 

2.)  That a tiny percentage of authors make a livable wage writing is true, but that was my point.  If the industry can only sustain a few, then spreading what little wealth there is around means NOBODY can sustain it.  If nobody can work full time on writing novel-length fiction, you'll get far fewer people who are any good at all.

3.)  You find some shit in published fiction, but having read some unpublished work, it's better than the alternatives that were out there.

AE, for instance, isn't BAD.  There's a lot that could be polished, but the schedule doesn't permit polishing.  Additionally she's trapped in a "this is just how I work" cycle, which produces hit and miss results on a number of levels, both in quality and level of output.  Given a desire to write for traditional media, and a different subject matter, AE probably could build the chops to be regularly published.

There are more mid-list regular-production authors out there than you would think, people who make a living off their works.  They're often writing in different genres under different names.  Some people catch it big with the right thing at the right time, and that's great, and some people churn out predictable quality work on a regular timeframe.

A lot of the issue at hand is most of the stuff that gets submitted IS crap.  And most people writing do so under the illusion that writing salable fiction is ART.

It isn't.  It's work.  It is a craft.  Talent is half the battle, but acquired skill and knowledge are the other half.  People can often put out a first novel on talent.  A middling first novel that doesn't stir any noise on the shelves and gets swept away when the advance doesn't even get paid out with the sales.  Then nada.  They produced once, a bit spectacle that took a lot of blood sweat and tears and emotional turmoil.  But no continuing level of production.  No immediate followups, no working with the publisher or on their own.  And publishers run a lot of scut novels to try the lay of the land.  Maybe Werewolf Homosexual Romance is going to strike the next big hit.  Maybe people are ready for Traditional Sword and Sorcery again.  Kitch-Mysteries could be making a turnaround.  Hardboiled detective fiction is a ready income-maker, so we'll give this guy a chance on the hope he keeps producing. 

Not only, do I feel, all of those things eventually fail on the internet, but the writing will eventually follow.  Not today, or tomorrow, or next year.  But over time the market forces WILL change things.  When the readership becomes hopelessly fractured, the income for the authors will dry up.  When the income dries up the workers will leave.  Then we'll just have passionate college students writing badly rehashed versions of fifty and hundred year old novels and wearing berets. 

--fje
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sinic Reply #1271 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 08:51:31 PM
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Slack.

So you're saying the future is in berets, right?
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Pixie Reply #1272 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 09:19:46 PM
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Beldaran

Damn, I need to change my major to beret-craft!
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The Ogre Reply #1273 in Tales of MU — Posted August 05, 2008, 10:48:56 PM
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FINALLY, somebody is listening.

--fje
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sinic Reply #1274 in Tales of MU — Posted August 06, 2008, 08:27:09 AM
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Slack.

So... mysterious figure in Empress suite...

I'm guessing that's their benefactor.  I'm also going to go out on a limb here and guess it's either Mack's dad or another full demon.  He's probably been keeping an eye on her from afar all these years while she was under the protection of her grandmother.  He couldn't get near her at school with Amy around and the rest of the campus guard would probably notice him as well.

They said the last people left the empress suite in a hurry.  Nothing like the sudden appearance of a demon to drive you away.  A demon could probably also have the monetary sway to foot the bill for everything thus far that evening.  He probably wanted to wait until Mack was in a bloodlust before showing himself since then she'd pay less attention.

I do have to wonder just how stupid Steff is.  In what world is sticking your finger in a jar of blood then holding it out in front of a hungry half-demon a good idea?

Missy is also stupid and obnoxious.  Hopefully she dies soon.
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FireFly Reply #1275 in Tales of MU — Posted August 06, 2008, 08:58:55 AM

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Sometimes I wake up with my nose in the grass.

Yah, isn't this the first time she's been away from school without Amaranth around? It's the perfect opportunity. He'll probably think she took Steff out just to lure her back and eat her. A comedic chase around the suite will ensue and they will break everything and have to explain it in the morning. "My demon dad came over and totally tried to eat my girlfriend who is a boy."

It would be badass if it was her dad.
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Zahnnie Reply #1276 in Tales of MU — Posted August 06, 2008, 08:59:57 AM
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I *heart* pie (sexily).

I like HungryMack. Smile

The figure could just be Steff come back. I dunno.

*re-reads* Nah, maybe not. I don't know that it's a demon. I guess it could be, but it seems a stretch. It probably is their benefactor though.
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sinic Reply #1277 in Tales of MU — Posted August 06, 2008, 09:32:35 AM