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Dwayne Rivers Reply #20 in Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 12:18:17 AM
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Now, this is something that has been on my mind lately... I bet this question has been asked many times, but I still have to ask again - what is it about nice, normal guys that makes them totally unattractive to girls? Why do girls choose some kind of jerks over and over again?  Angry
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Antero Reply #21 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 02:31:53 AM
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Not your monkey.

The question you're asking, then, isn't "Why don't girls like nice guys?" but rather "Why do people stay in shitty abusive/hateful/car-crash relationships?"
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Dwayne Rivers Reply #22 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 02:44:42 AM
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Or rather - why are there people who don't like to be treated the way they deserve, and would rather stick to those who treat them like trash?! I simply don't get this.  ???
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Scix Reply #23 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 03:51:16 AM

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People often stay in situations they THINK they deserve,though.

And people (myself included) tend to have recurring patterns over and over and over, in an almost supernatural panoply of similar relationships until, I believe, we recognize that WE are the recurring element, and in some way create or call this pattern to us.

Personally, I find getting square with the original, archetypal moment that set the pattern to be wonderfully useful in breaking such cycles.
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Dwayne Rivers Reply #24 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 04:50:09 AM
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Yes, perhaps this has something to do with self-confience issues. But why on earth would such a wonderful and otherwise successful person think she deserves to be treated this way?
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Scix Reply #25 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 05:01:46 AM

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Blue beard

People, in general, are crazy. This is probably her way.
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Dwayne Rivers Reply #26 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 05:57:58 AM
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She says she is attracted to someone only if he doesn't care about her!  :'(
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NoxEquites Reply #27 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 06:05:48 AM

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I make shiny things, you need them.

Can it not also be asked: Why do guys not like nice women? I presume that there are many average but good personality women who complain because, to their mind,  guys see only the drop dead gorgeous Cynthia(or whatever the bombshells name is) as potential date partner and leave average Jane(etc) out in the cold despite the fact that Cynthia is a manipulative bitch.

Why don't we hear that many women complaining, on forums such as this, about how they are nice and guys just want the hot bitches? Is it just the places I frequent?
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Scix Reply #28 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 06:12:59 AM

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She says she is attracted to someone only if he doesn't care about her!  :'(
Mostly smart-assed question:

So why do YOU care?
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LoneCoon Reply #29 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 07:10:13 AM
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I used to be a "Nice Guy".

It sucked.

Now I'm myself. I don't need to be a nice, neat, insecure little syncophant who seeks the approval of all women everywhere. I realized the reason that I wasn't in a realtionship was because I didn't meet an new people, and that any woman who bemoaned the fact that "guys weren't interested in her" or "he's a jerk, but I keep going back to him," wasn't clever enough to know what they really wanted in a realtionship. THey may eventually learn, but until such time as they do, they're not going to be dating me, so why should I care?

I agree with Revolution here. There's 6 billion people in this world. There's at least 3 billion who swing your way. Quit pining over someone who hasn't got a clue and find someone else. There are pleanty of people out there WITHOUT personailty problems. Keep bitching and you become the one with the personality problem, and beleive me, that ain't attractive.
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Tamsin Reply #30 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 07:45:44 AM

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I remember when this thread existed in SLI. Could we pin it in Sex like it was then? Then whenever another man wonders aloud, "Why does the pretty girl I like only date aggressive, macho, assholes and not meeeee?", we can handily point him to this thread and say "See previous." and not have to answer the question a bazillion times? Smile

Also:

Asking why girls aren't attracted to nice guys and bemoaning the fact they only like jerks ticks me off. I realize that the speaker is not referring to all girls, but it's still annoying. It's like if I started a thread titled Why are Men Insensitive Jerks? and referred in similarly general terms to the half-dozen male jerks who've expressed interest in me and who I had to smack with verbal baseball bats until they went away...
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Fever Reply #31 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 07:56:34 AM

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Sinner Relentless.

Most women like guys who treat them right, but you have to be independently confident. You also can't let her have her way all the time. You have to give her challenges without being too much of an ass or she'll lose interest. Even if you're head-over-heels about a girl, you need to be careful about how you show it if you want her to feel the same.
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S*S Reply #32 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 08:14:04 AM
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Why do girls choose some kind of jerks over and over again?  Angry

Because most women are pathetic and stupid. Next question.

Seriously, why do you WANT to date some vapid bitch who's only attracted to shallow, sucky relationships? Shouldn't you be happy that you find out these girls arn't suitable for you sooner rather then later? There do exist women who DO date nice guys, you've just got to find them.

Also, it might possibly be you arn't as nice a guy as you think. "Nice guys" are often only nice and chivalrous to the objects of their affection, or because they hold out the hope of being rewarded, rather then genuine altruistism guiding their generosity.

Also also, "Nice guy" should not equate to "doormat" or "weak".
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sinic Reply #33 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 08:23:07 AM
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Slack.

Moved to Sex and stickied.  All further Nice GuyTM threads and conversations will be deposited here.  This will stay at the top of the forum to let Nice GuysTM have a place to whine about How Unfair The World Is.

Personally Nice GuysTM get under my skin.  The only type of guy you ever hear talking about being nice to girls are these Nice GuyTM, Gallihad-on-a-white-horse, I-will-save-you, emotastic wastes of space.  You don't talk about being nice to a girl.  You certainly don't whine about it on the internet.  You just are nice to a girl.  You treat her with respect and like a human.  If she says something stupid, you tell her she's said something stupid.  If she tells a bad joke, you mock her.  If she says something you disagree with, you argue with her.  You don't bend to her every whim and bring her flowers and chocolates and all that other crap.  Also, as with others, this is coming from the mouth (well, fingers) of a mostly-reformed Nice GuyTM.

That being said, I don't think the initial situation described in this thread is necessarily an issue with Nice Guys.  It's more of an issue of "Why do women stay in abusive relationships?" as mentioned earlier.  I think the Nice GuyTM thread was overdue, though and should probably have been anticipated.  It's here now.  Have at it!

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Edit to Add:  To an outsider I just realized this might look like a lot of rant/venom coming out of nowhere over this topic.  Thing is, we've had this topic before.  Not here, but at the previous board most of us came from.  On that forum it seemed that at least once a month or so someone would come up with this topic and we'd all rehash the same arguments over and over.  After a while the thread was stickied at the top of the Sex (SLI - sex, love, intimacy) forum.  We hadn't done that again here because up until recently we didn't have any new members.  Goodness knows the old memebers have talked this subject to death.

It's not that we (as a community) think Nice GuysTM are unhelpable or lesser people, we just get a bit worn out on the subject I imagine.  We have all the backstory on it.  New people don't and as such we might not come across in the best light.  I think this is probably a thread that needs to stay around, just realize where the advice from older members is coming from.  We've been talking about this stuff for years.
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stargazer2 Reply #34 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 08:27:34 AM
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People often stay in situations they THINK they deserve,though.

And people (myself included) tend to have recurring patterns over and over and over, in an almost supernatural panoply of similar relationships until, I believe, we recognize that WE are the recurring element, and in some way create or call this pattern to us.

Personally, I find getting square with the original, archetypal moment that set the pattern to be wonderfully useful in breaking such cycles.

Scix speaks wisdom here.  I left my ex after one year, but came back because he promised to change.  Then when I went back, I convinced myself that I needed to do some making up for leaving in the first place.  So I stuck by him while he cheated, later because we had a kid, later still because if he treats me this way it must be in some way my fault.  It was quite an act of will to leave when I realized he was still cheating, despite promises to the contrary (I'd known it for years, but had proof in hand).  I still couldn't admit he was emotionally abusive for two years afterward; I thought I had brought it on by being less than perfect. 

I recognized that bit about 'being the common element' in my relationships after my divorce.  I had only had a few boyfriends previously, but the overall pattern was the same.  My archetypical moment was really my relationship with my dad.  While mostly his discipline was not so bad, he was basically the one who taught me that approval depends upon agreeing and being exactly what someone else wants from you.   

It may take some time, and I don't know exactly what ideas your friend has. I do have to agree with the others that arguing over the stereotype is of limited value.  I don't know the answer for her, because it relies on an epiphany I'm not privy to.  But I know from both ends  it's a tough situation to be in, a tough situation to watch.  I will say that applying pressure tends to backfire and finding ways to bolster the self image tends to help, albiet slowly.
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Dagda Reply #35 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 09:16:45 AM

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I'll go even further than Lonecoon. There are just under 300 million people in the US. Some large percentage of those people are members of the sex or sexes that you might be interested, and some large percentage of those prefer your sex, or at least enjoy socializing with your sex. The likelyhood is that somewhere in that morass of human flesh is someone who would be willing to spend the rest of their life with you, let alone rub fun bits together with you.

If you haven't found someone who's willing to do that, it doesn't make you a nice person. It means that you haven't found someone who's interested in doing that with you. If that's the case, change your venue. Or change you.

Women like who they like. If you haven't met one who likes you in the way that you would like them to, then you need to either find a woman who likes you the way you are, or you need to change yourself in a way that makes you more attractive to a woman that you are in turn interested in.

As for your friend,from what you describe, it sounds like she's bought into a collection of the things that women are taught by our society, for will or nill. She's decided that she's got to "stand by her man" or that it's better to be with someone who abuses her than to be alone, or that he's not really abusing her, he's just correcting her errant behavior. And that's not your problem. At least not directly. There is nothing that you can do to get her to change. She has to be the one to come to grips with all of that, and decide that she wants to change. You can't do it for her, though you can support her while she does come to grips with that. But you can't make that decision for her.

But don't generalize her issues into "women don't like nice guys".
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Pixie Reply #36 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 09:29:52 AM
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On the subject of Nice Guys and their threads: I think what Goo said about them being "unable to think or focus on anything except their lack of being in a relationship" really sums it up for me. That is something I find desperately unattractive, someone who may have an otherwise wonderful life, constantly bemoaning the fact that they don't have a girlfriend. Sure it can be sucky to be single, but if you just go on and ON about it it comes off as really whiny. I think that's why people have better luck once they stop looking. They're not so.... absorbed in the pursuit of romance that they forget how to be a fun or interesting person. I know quite a few people who've become much more fun and interesting to know once they got into a relationship, simply because they weren't spending the wole time sniffling any more. ^_^
Edit: Also with regards to original Nice Guys, why would they rather view every woman in the world as broken rather than look at whether the problem lies with themselves?

On the ACTUAL subject of this thread: Yeah, I'd look at her early relationships. Parents, parental figures and the like. These patterns often seem to be set early on, and that makes them hard to break out of. If you're taught a certain way of relationships while you're developing, that can be hard to get rid of later.
Edit: Or alternatively, perhaps she believes she can fix them? Maybe some of the girls who follow this pattern of abusive relationships seek these men out because they wish to be able to "tame" or "heal" them. A need to be able to fix what's broken in someone else?
Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 09:33:22 AM by Beldaran Logged


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Dwayne Rivers Reply #37 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 09:38:29 AM
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How do you boost a friend's self confidence and make her feel better about herself, then? Yeah, I know it probably takes time.
Someone here asked me why I care. Well, that's pretty obvious isn't it? Because she's a friend. And no, I'm not interested in her. I'm not single at the moment, either.
I'm new here so I had no idea how many times you guys have discussed this before. So I was a bit overwhelmed with the "oh, no, we're so sick of it" response. I just asked because I genuinly care. Perhaps someone can provide me with a list of topics that had been discussed many times?  Smile

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toranoraneko Reply #38 in Re: Nice guys - why don't girls like them? — Posted July 09, 2006, 09:49:59 AM
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